Technomancy's place

2020/02/09 7:29:28 PM UTC

programming nerdery
I'm doing research for a potential talk about influences in programming language design; can you think of any non-toy lisps created in the last 12 years that aren't on this list?

* Hy
* Pixie
* Lumen
* Ferret
* Fennel
* Urn
* Carp
* Janet
* Joker
* Shen

(some of those listed above may arguably be toys)

2020/02/09 7:40:49 PM UTC

programming nerdery

@technomancy not quite sure whether these fit your criteria but I know of one for writing scripting rust programs (github.com/murarth/ketos) and one for writing rust macros (github.com/JunSuzukiJapan/macr)

2020/02/09 7:46:59 PM UTC

programming nerdery
@doesntgolf thanks; I will take a look!

2020/02/09 7:52:25 PM UTC

programming nerdery
@doesntgolf my arbitrary criteria for "toy" is "more than single-digit contributor count" but this looks like it's seen more real-world use than some.

on the other hand, this looks an awful lot like a loose dialect of Scheme rather than its own distinct language?

2020/02/09 7:58:34 PM UTC

programming nerdery

@technomancy I was impressed when trying out TXR-Lisp. Admittedly I used the Lisp parts, not the pattern matching parts. From the Lisps that try to make everyday CLI tasks quick and easy this might be the best.

2020/02/09 8:08:37 PM UTC

programming nerdery

@technomancy Are you throwing shade at the great Paul Graham and his army of sycophants??

2020/02/09 9:00:58 PM UTC

programming nerdery

@technomancy LFE fits if you count the date of initial announcement.

2020/02/09 9:06:24 PM UTC

programming nerdery
@KrzysiekJ true; I will definitely be including that. good point.

2020/02/09 10:24:57 PM UTC

programming nerdery
@jookia thanks. but for this question I'm specifically asking for languages created in the last 12 years rather than ones that have been around a while.

2020/02/09 10:26:03 PM UTC

programming nerdery

@technomancy Idk why I missed the 'last 12 years', my bad!

2020/02/09 11:02:05 PM UTC

programming nerdery
@mtm thanks; I should have been more specific that I'm interested in lisps that were created after Clojure's release.

2020/02/10 12:22:06 AM UTC

programming nerdery
@aidalgol I don't really have a great grasp on what interests my followers have on this new account, and I'm personally glad when a long thread full of pedantic talk for hobby-I-dont-care-about is CW'd when I see it on another person's account. (anime, sports, Windows, etc.)

2020/02/10 12:24:35 AM UTC

programming nerdery
doing some research on lisps that have been created since Clojure. it appears that there have been more lisps created by people who have contributed patches directly to Clojure than lisps created by people who haven't used Clojure.

definite "velvet underground effect" vibe going on here. not everyone takes all the features, but everyone takes something, and most folks take a lot.
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2020/02/10 2:49:46 AM UTC

@technomancy
I actually looked up recent, obscure Lisp dialects recently. Off the top of my head: Joxa, Toccata, CSCM, Maru, DreamLisp

You might like this list, by the way: github.com/chr15m/awesome-cloj

2020/02/10 3:54:16 AM UTC

programming nerdery

@technomancy hmmmm. I guess ABCL just baaarely missed the cutoff

2020/02/10 4:14:16 AM UTC

@erkin thanks! I added Joxa, but Toccata and Dreamlisp felt a little too toy-ish to make the cut. it's somewhat arbitrary but I'm considering languages with double-digit contributors, otherwise I'd be here all day. =) I'll take a look at Maru tho; looks interesting.

2020/02/10 4:15:32 AM UTC

programming nerdery
@antifuchs well, the implementation is new-ish, but the language itself is very old. I'm looking to trace the influence of Clojure in language design across lisps that have arisen since its release.

2020/02/10 4:21:08 AM UTC

programming nerdery

@technomancy ah, I see - looking for languages not just implementations of older languages. Hmmmm. There's clemens.endorphin.org/ilc-talk which also missed the cutoff by 1y (:

2020/02/10 7:39:51 AM UTC

programming nerdery

@technomancy I hope they didn’t take Rich’s open source CLA vibes with them tho.

2020/02/10 4:02:21 PM UTC

programming nerdery
@fudgel thankfully I haven't seen a single instance of that madness spreading

2020/02/10 9:31:57 PM UTC

programming nerdery
@mattly ah cool; I remember reading about this years ago but I had forgotten. it looks remarkably polished for only having had 8 contributors; really only 3 nontrivial contributors. it's cool that they got it self-hosting.

this is a very rare case of a newer lisp that uses () instead of [] for arglists. it's also the only other lisp besides Fennel I know of which makes their if work like cond with unlimited pred/body pairs.

I wonder if Clojurescript took some of the wind out of their sails?

2020/02/10 9:34:37 PM UTC

programming nerdery

@technomancy maybe? I know the creator IRL, I think he just got busy with other things. It’s great for JS environments where CLJS isn’t a good fit, such as Photoshop or Max/MSP

2020/02/10 9:37:29 PM UTC

programming nerdery
@mattly yeah, clojurescript has a loooooot of baggage; I can see why a lighter-weight closer-to-target language would have a lot of appeal in that kind of situation. especially considering how long it took before cljs even had access to a repl at all.